Explaining 0 conf transactions

Hi, I have a question how do you explain 0 conf on BCH to a family member that know about security of confirmation and trades crypto? I recently presented BCH to a him, he knows about crypto but he think that the BCH network could be dangerous to use cause of 0 conf, I tried to explain that 0 conf is there like for fast payments but the person can wait for confirmations, but he end up not really convinced, how can I explain it to it in a better way.

Explaining 0 conf transactions

12 thoughts on “Explaining 0 conf transactions”

  1. Bitcoin is all about incentives and security is gradient and not an on/off thing.

    If you have 100$ and a baseball bat your relative is probably not going to try and steal it from you. But if you have 1Million$ and still only a bat he will because now he can invest in better weapons.

    Same with Bitcoin. If you move 1 million you probably are not satisfied with 1-conf. But buying a used car for 1 conf you are not gonna sweat it. And so 0-conf is totally fine for groceries.

    You are not going to buy 100 times groceries to get one free with your double spend. And you are also not going to involve a miner for that because the profit is much to small to pay him.

    The technicalities are: BCH didn’t cripple 0-conf safety like BTC did. Instead they went the other way and made it more safe.

    • Blocks are never full, tx get into the next block 99,999% makes double spend harder
    • Network works with the first seen rule, makes it harder to double spend
    • Double spend proofs add a cost to every double spend try, the risk of getting called out.
  2. SpinBCH.com is a Bitcoin Cash website that uses 0-conf and has been around for many years. This is strong evidence that 0-conf works for a business without problems.

  3. Because unless you are a botnet hacker guru, you cant trick the network into supporting a later made transaction; If you are, then theres only a probability of your attack succeeding. Miners already saw the first transaction and will likely put the first one in a block.

  4. Hedera Hashgraph gets confirmed by all nodes and the transaction is completed with finality in 3 to 5 seconds

  5. Basically, BCH is built to actually sustain and secure 0-conf transactions. Like what u/ImInA_Tank_YourNot said, blocks are never full, nodes have a first seen rule, and generally double spending is expensive.

  6. The network detects doublespends and sends a notification within seconds. So the doublespender would have to be in a partnership with a miner (and hide the doublespend giving it only to that miner). The result is a probability of doublespend proportional to the miners hash power.
    You the miner are conspiring to commit fraud. You’ve entangled the coinbase reward with the doublespend. Repeat this too many times and you’ve committed 100 (say) counts of fraud and you are id’ed when you sell your coinbase to pay the electricity. Your whole company shuts down and you get 3 hots and a cot.

  7. A transaction is irreversible once seen by the miners. That’s all.

    On BTC this isn’t true because of the exploit the banker employees added to it’s protocol, and as such you can easily perform double-spends on the BTC network.

  8. Thank you all, I knew that on BCH 0 conf was safe, but I didn’t knew exactly how and a way to explain it 👍

  9. I’d tell them that there is a dsproof (ds meaning double-spend) validity check which checks for at least 2 things:

    1. No smart contract is being used. (Or if it is a smart contract, it’s a special one which is valid for 0-conf.)
    2. The signature must be correct for 0-conf. It’s possible to sign a payment as though it were a blank cheque, & then the miner (or bank) can just redirect the payment to themselves since the banker or miner can prove that the sig was for a blank cheque. That’s called the SIGHASH flag.

    For me to accept a payment immediately I’d like to have those two things checked. dsproofs come with a 0-conf check. Because of how difficult it is to explain to ppl, most ppl prefer to just wait 10 minutes. (It’d be nice to reduce the block time to maybe 5 mins, but spurious confirmations could occur with a low hash rate…)

  10. Better to use the lightning network. no confirmations required at the time of payment. no possibility for double spend.

  11. I’d begin the conversation by asking your family member to explain why he thinks that accepting 0 conf transactions on the BCH network is dangerous. Then ask him “To whom is it dangerous?” the receiver or the sender?

    If he states “the receiver” then ask

    (1) “does the receiver not decide their level of exposure?”

    (2) “Are you deciding not to accept BNCH because there is a miniscule chance some bad actor may attempt to doublespend?”

    (3) “What reliable evidence do you have that successful doublespends have occured on the BCH network?”

    (4) “Do you accept fiat?”

    (5) “How often do you check each each bill to ensure it is not counterfeit?”

    (6) “When was the last time you checked a fiat bill to ensure it was not counterfeit?”

    These are just a few questions to ask your family member. Require your family member to show their work. Just do not blindly accept that they know what they are talking about.

    I’d also ask him to explain the process in which one creates a doublespend that can be expected to succeed, then have him perform this doublespend where he steals funds he originally sent to you.

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